What Leaders Want | COO of SBS – Tobias Unger

Caroline: You have held different C-level roles in your career, you’ve been CEO multiple times. How have those experiences and the lessons you’ve learned shaped who you are today?

Tobias Unger: All C-level positions are similar in one aspect—you have a mission, you build a team, you think about what is required for the success of the business, you implement it, and so on. That element is very consistent, whether you’re the CEO, CFO, or Chief Product Officer. Then there’s the content of the job itself, which varies depending on the role. And the third thing is how people perceive you differently depending on your title. When you’re the CEO, people expect different things from you than when you’re the CFO or CPO, because you represent a specific function and certain expectations.

For instance, when you’re the CFO, people expect you to talk about numbers—they don’t expect you to talk about culture or values, as they might expect that from HR. I learned that the title you carry really affects how others see you. It’s important to understand that we all play a role in our professional life, but that role isn’t who we are at our core. We’re not born a CFO or CEO. These are roles we assume as part of a business, and they come with certain responsibilities and expectations from others. So, I learned that if you’re the CEO, it’s hard to address certain topics because people expect you to focus on specific things. They might not want to hear those topics from me as CFO or from the CPO. So, that’s probably the biggest learning—that roles change quickly, but it doesn’t change who you are as a person. It just changes what people expect from you and what you need to focus on.

Caroline: So, based on what you just said, how would you like people to see you? What kind of legacy would you like to leave?

Tobias Unger: For me, the most important thing is that people feel I made a difference and fulfilled some of their expectations. I’m very results-oriented, so seeing things work well and run smoothly is very satisfying for me.

Another thing that’s important to me is having a good relationship with the people around me. Just because you hold a certain title doesn’t mean you’re better or different from anyone else. At the end of the day, when you’re outside of that role—say, having a beer at the bar—everyone is the same. That’s why mutual respect between people is so important to me, as well as maintaining a transparent, honest culture and building good relationships beyond the work environment.

Caroline: So, we’ve mentioned that you have two decades of leadership experience, particularly in the financial services industry, which is quite an achievement. What specific areas of expertise have you developed throughout your career, and how have they influenced your leadership style today?

Tobias Unger: When it comes to expertise or skills, I like to think of it in terms of both technical skills and hard skills that I’ve developed over my career. Early on, I was heavily involved in financial analysis and modeling in banking, and while I don’t do that anymore, it still helps me understand our clients and how banks operate. Over time, as I transitioned between industries, I picked up new skills.

However, at this stage in my career, technical skills have become less critical compared to other skills I’ve acquired. For instance, I still love Excel—I’ve worked with it since the beginning of my career. It’s an essential tool for me because I prefer to understand financial details before reaching any conclusions.

Now, in terms of organizational skills and expertise, having held various roles across different companies has given me a solid understanding of how organizations function. I often liken it to a mechanical watch, which has many intricate pieces that must work together seamlessly. I love it when an organization operates smoothly, almost like clockwork. When everything falls into place and people understand their roles, it brings a sense of satisfaction.

The third crucial element in my current role is leadership skills. Leadership is a broad term, but to me, it means building and leading teams, making decisions that consider different perspectives, and ensuring everyone understands how they fit into the bigger picture. I believe in setting a good example and fostering collaboration. I have a passion for fixing and improving things, which is likely why I’m in a COO role today; that aspect is a significant part of my job.

Caroline: What do you do when there are frictions and when people don’t work like clocks?

Tobias Unger: The first thing is always to understand what the problem is and why things aren’t working as intended. Often, you’ll discover small details that can easily be fixed. For instance, it could be unclear responsibilities or conflicting objectives between different groups or teams. Many times, these issues stem from simple misunderstandings.

To address this, you need an analytical mind and a willingness to listen to people. They usually know what’s wrong and how to fix it. The challenge arises when you ask ten people for their perspectives and get ten different answers about what’s not working. In those cases, you need to dig deeper.

There’s also a different category of problems related to collaboration between people. Sometimes, they simply don’t speak the same language or lack mutual understanding due to different backgrounds, mindsets, or experiences. To resolve these issues, I find it helpful to facilitate group discussions to find a solution together. In those settings, you often act as a mediator.

There are rare situations where you might have to step back, take some time to analyze things yourself, and then make a decision. But those instances are quite infrequent.

Caroline: What were the turning points that led you to become Chief Operating Officer?

Tobias Unger: It’s funny because a lot of people expect a straightforward answer like, “I did this, this, and this to reach my goal.” But as we all know, life doesn’t work like that. For me, it was more about coincidence, a bit of luck, and chance.

To explain, I transitioned from investment banking to a bank, becoming a deputy CFO with the intention of eventually stepping into the CFO role. After just a year, we faced a significant issue while trying to replace our core banking system. The project didn’t go as planned, and the CEO who oversaw it left. The new CEO approached me and asked if I could take over that failed project, thinking about how we could improve it, as we still needed to replace our core banking system.

I had two questions for him: first, why me? I was on the CFO side and hadn’t dealt with IT operations or core banking systems before. And second, I was only 32 or 33 at the time; would people really follow me into this role? Wasn’t it too early for me?

Fortunately, I had a supportive CEO who believed in me. He said, “You’ve managed many projects in your life; this is no different. You may not know the technical details, but you have people for that. We need you to focus on the overall program and strategy, and I trust you can handle it.” Regarding my concerns about age and experience, he reassured me that others would come around once they saw the difference I could make.

It was a tough couple of years convincing everyone, but that’s when I stepped into a leadership role. Looking back, it was never part of my plan; I was fortunate to have someone believe in me at such an early stage. I think that’s a crucial lesson: you can be very good at what you do, but you always need someone who believes in you and gives you the opportunity to grow and take that next step.

Caroline: Yeah, thank you, thank you a lot. But recently, last January, you’ve been appointed Chief Operating Officer of SBS. What is your assessment of the run so far?

Tobias Unger:  Yes, it’s been about a year since I got involved with SBS. The first step was to clarify some strategic elements and business model aspects. We focused on building an operating model for the future that supports our transition to a software-as-a-service (SaaS) model and transforming our business from a more traditional services and licensed approach to a modern, agile organization.

There was a lot of preparation over the last year, discussing these topics and planning how to implement them. Then, on January 1st, we said, “Okay, now we start changing things.” Since then, my role has been more about guiding that change—mentoring and coaching the team. Are we there yet? No. Will we ever be fully there? I think we’ll reach a point where we’re good enough, but you can never be completely finished with such an endeavor. It’s essential to continuously adjust to what happens in the market, with clients, and in the broader environment.

I believe we’re on a good path to achieving the targets we set for ourselves. I see significant progress in many areas of the business, though I don’t want to single out any one area. Ultimately, we’ll know if we succeed by looking at our client net promoter scores, financial margins, and employee engagement scores improving. Those are the key elements to evaluate our progress over time.

Caroline: In the context of the acquisition of SBS by Axway, what are the main operational changes to come? And how do you decide which operational changes to focus on first?

Tobias Unger: Sure. The most important thing to clarify is that we are not integrating the businesses into each other. Yes, there was an acquisition, but we are creating a new holding company model with two distinct subsidiaries or businesses underneath. It’s crucial to understand this, as it means that for many people, there won’t be significant changes.

There will be some changes in day-to-day operations since we won’t be integrating products or core business functions. One key area we need to work on jointly is anything related to our shareholders, the public market, and the external world. For the external world, we now operate as one company, which means we need to consolidate our financial numbers and manage our funding as a combined group.

Since SBS came out of Sopra Steria and depended on many of Sopra Steria’s functions and processes, we need to transition those functions to the new group. Enabling SBS and Axway to be operationally independent of Soprasteria is our first priority because we need that independence to run our businesses effectively in the future.

After establishing that independence, we’ll identify areas where collaboration makes sense. There are many operational aspects we won’t change simply for the sake of change; we want to ensure that any adjustments we make provide clear benefits. We focus on changing only where it is necessary or advantageous to do so.

Caroline: Okay. What’s next for you in this journey? What’s next for you in this transformation context as a leader?

Tobias Unger: I’ve been asked to take on a new role in the new group as group CFO. As I mentioned earlier, I was almost CFO at one point in my career, and now I’ve transitioned from COO to being asked to step into the CFO position. It’s one of those opportunities where you’re presented with a new challenge, and I’m excited about it.

With this new role comes the responsibility of consolidating certain finance functions. We’ve already begun discussions and are implementing immediate measures to ensure we grow together effectively. However, we’ve made it clear to the teams that, even though we’re transitioning, we need to maintain focus on supporting the business until the year-end in the existing structure. This approach is crucial to avoid any disruptions and to finish the year strong.

Looking ahead, next year will usher in a phase where we can integrate more closely. It’s an exciting time to be at Axway and SBS, and I appreciate the chance to contribute to the future success of the company. I’m looking forward to building and improving the organization we want to be a part of in the future. It truly is an exciting time!

Caroline: Great. So to wrap up this episode of our podcast series, What Leaders Want, could you share your perspective on what a leader truly seeks?

Tobias Unger: What a leader truly seeks—wow, that’s a big question to end on! I think I hinted at it earlier when I mentioned the importance of self-awareness. As a leader, it’s crucial to understand who you are and what you want in life, both professionally and personally.

I’ve encountered many individuals who exhibit leadership qualities even if they don’t hold formal leadership positions. It’s always been rewarding to see employees step up, take charge, and help others, striving to improve processes and challenge the status quo. At the core, a leader is someone who refuses to settle for mediocrity.

Leaders find passion and purpose in what they do and use that energy to drive improvements. I often tell employees that unless they love what they do, they won’t be happy or perform well. I prefer to surround myself with people who have energy, drive, and passion rather than those who are indifferent.

It’s essential for everyone to take charge of their own lives and careers, determining what is truly important to them. One story that sticks with me involves a young employee who was asked to lead her team. Despite being the best performer, she declined the promotion. When I asked why, she explained that while she loved her job and was fully committed, her real passion was spending time with her dogs. She worked to support that passion and didn’t want to take on more responsibility that could interfere with it.

I admired her clarity and focus at such a young age. It’s a powerful reminder that finding balance and pursuing what you love is key to fulfillment.

Caroline: Yeah, it is. Thank you, Tobias, for being with us and sharing your time.

Tobias Unger: Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.