Fintrends | Net Zero Software Operations : What is truly possible?

Caroline Béguin: Bettina, you work for SBS, a software company. Can you share a bit about your role in the CSR department? 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: I am head of sustainability, and as head of sustainability, I take care of all of the CSR topics. What does it mean? It means we do the regulatory reporting, which we have a lot, and this year is very special with the arrival of the CSRD, who would also help us with the whole net zero question. I also take care of all of the social aspect, and of course, then you have your environmental aspect, which is helping us to take action in the way we work, so that is within the offices but also in the way we work with our software, and that’s where we’re gonna be discussing about net zero in particular. However, digital sustainability from an internal perspective has two feet, because it’s a little bit on the social aspect with everything that concerns accessibility. Because we need to remember that when we talk about sustainability, we’re talking about making something viable and lasting, and that does not only include the environmental aspect but also the social and the economical pieces. So within digital sustainability, we have a piece about reducing our environmental impact in our software but also making them accessible to everyone.

Caroline Béguin: As you mentioned, digital sustainability stands on two pillars, and today, we will focus on the environmental aspects. And since you work for a software company, could you explain how software operations contribute to carbon emissions? 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: The software industry, as any industry, uses resources. We use resources because we have computers, and we use data centers, and all of these things demand to get rare earth and special metals and a lot of very specific materials from the earth. And to use those resources, we consume water, because when you extract the material from the earth, you need to treat it and produce it and make it go all the way to our computers, and that also consumes water. So the first part of how the software industry impacts the environment is by consuming resources. But also, the way the software that we do has an impact is because we have data centers, and we have data. We consume a lot of electricity, and those data centers produce a lot of heat, because when you create something, you keep it alive. So in our case, we have a lot of products.

Caroline Béguin: That’s a great insight into how software operations impact carbon emissions, not just through data but also the tools we use, which consume significant resources, and it naturally raises the question: What does it mean to achieve net zero in this context? So could you start by defining it broadly before diving into what it entails for software companies? 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: Within the ecosystem and the way the world works, we do need to have emissions, because without it, our world wouldn’t be comfortable for human living. So the way the Earth was created, it means that having this greenhouse effect is what keeps us warm and in a controlled environment. However, because we’ve gone too far in the last hundred years in production, or maybe two hundred years if we start from the Industrial Revolution, now we need to balance out the way we produce, and that’s why we call it net zero. It’s not about stopping emitting emissions. It’s about balancing that out by reducing what we can and then compensating on the side by either capturing where you’re in the industry. So for example, if you are doing cement, you’re probably gonna be able to capture your carbon, or by trying to increase the green surface of the Earth by planting trees and improving agriculture and things like that. Okay, probably not agriculture, but by improving the green surface of the Earth, that will be able to capture that excessive greenhouse effect. 

Caroline Béguin: So back to my previous question: What does net zero entail for software companies? 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: In our company, what we’re trying to do is be more mindful about the way we use resources. One of the things you need to think about is that when we migrated to using computers on a great scale, and we went paperless, we forgot that it’s not because it’s not visible physically, that it’s not stocked somewhere, and we are using a lot of resources. You’ll be surprised, or maybe not, to hear that 4% of the total gas greenhouse effect emissions come from digital services, and it’s planned to go up till eight, so doubling if we don’t do anything. So how do we improve it? We first are mindful about what we do. So having 1,000 emails that we haven’t deleted is gonna be an issue, so we need to be careful about what we stock. It is the same for our documents. Because we no longer have in mind how much space we’re using, we have a tendency to stock many, many versions of things…. and also because we are in a collaborative mode, we tend to double or triple some of the documents we have. So the first things you can do as any human is to reduce the way you use your computers, but then in our software, it’s about how we define the products we’re doing and how we make sure that we reduce the usage, the storage, and we make sure that we define what we’re gonna do with the data we’re getting. 

Caroline Béguin: From what you’re saying, it seems clear that achieving net zero is becoming critical in today’s tech landscape. 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: That is a tricky question, because is it critical? I guess it is very important because it’s gonna take more and more space in the environmental impact that we’re having, whether it’s from resources, but also from energy and other types of emissions. However, it is not necessarily taken into consideration in that way, as it’s not business critical, if we call it like that. So why is it critical? It’s because we are developing new functionalities, and they’re becoming even more consuming. If we think about AI, we don’t have a clear grasp of how much resources it’s taking and how it is considered. And once again, it’s more about being mindful and changing the way we consume now, so we don’t have to do it later when it’s gonna be way more costly.

Caroline Béguin: So far, we have tried to understand the environmental impact of software operations and how software companies can contribute to sustainability efforts. Now, I want to dive into exploring actionable steps for companies and individuals. But before we go deeper, I wanna ask a more personal question. So the term net zero is often used in discussions about sustainability, but what are your thoughts on the terminology itself? 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: I don’t have a problem with terminology itself, because on one hand, it’s important to create a sense of urgency. However, it makes us talk too much about the wording and not enough about what we can do about it. 

Caroline Béguin: Okay, so how can we ensure the language we use around sustainability aligns with the actionable goals? 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: I think we need to think about the small things, like I was mentioning before. The big things are important, big things like: challenge your customer. Does he really need it? Try to re-explain in which context and what is the impact of what you’re gonna do, but also not forgetting that all of the little pieces amount to a lot in the end. 

Caroline Béguin: You have emphasized a lot on the small steps we can take to reduce resource consumption. Could you share some of the initiatives we have implemented at SBS to reduce our carbon footprint? 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: We are still in the process of optimizing our product catalog, and one of the things we, as a company, can improve is by trying to mutualize certain ways of working in order to reduce the amount of code and the amount of data that is being stored. We went through a whole phase of data hoarding. As you know, data is the new gold, and that is also a problem because data has to be stored somewhere. As we move along, some of the things that we can do is try to improve the way this data is stored, try to think about the usage in a way to optimize the way it is used, and that also helps us reduce the amount of  impact we’re gonna be having. So yeah, there are a lot of little ways in which we contribute to environmental impact. 

Caroline Béguin: What actions would you encourage software companies and their employees to take immediately to contribute to sustainability? 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: I think the first thing, and the most important thing, is to create awareness. As I said in the beginning or at another point of the discussion, every little count, so whenever you are aware of the impact you’re having, you have more chance of changing it. You need to measure things, because whatever you don’t measure, you cannot change. Whatever you don’t see, you cannot resolve. So it is important to set up KPIs, be able to follow our consumption, whether it’s electricity or GHGs, or even more broadly. In our company, we had made the decision to work on the environmental impact and not just the carbon footprint of our products in order to take into account what I was saying from the production cycle and the resource depletion, as they call it. So I think, first of all, be aware that you have an impact. Then, find a way of showing that there are ways of changing, and as I said, for any common person, the first thing is be mindful of what you have in your computer or what you put in the network. Clean your email box regularly. Try to tell your bosses that this is important. And the way… When I was preparing the podcast, I was discussing with the person who is in charge of this specific aspect in the team, and he said, “Engage the top management.” So I think the most important thing is to tackle this problem from every way. I think the top management needs to be aware and show the way. But once again, even if you as a person are not in a position of power, you can still contribute by sharing the message. Do tell people that you have an impact. Remember, that it’s not because you don’t see the paper that you don’t have a lot of storage being consumed, and try to think about all of the small gestures you can put into place. 

Caroline Béguin: You mentioned awareness: What about training? Do you think it is truly effective? And if so, which training programs would you recommend? 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: Training is definitely useful, and one of the training that we use internally is eco design. So the idea is to show you through the RGSN. They have a series of recommendations of how to work correctly towards reducing the environmental impact. This training, we’re trying to implement in different ways for different type of profiles, because of course, you don’t have the same role when you’re defining the product, that when you are developing it, that when you’re running it, than when you are gonna try or thinking about decommissioning it. But yeah, training definitely helps because it is important to know what you can do.

Caroline Béguin: Should they be mandatory or..?

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: That is, that is a very tricky question because, in my opinion, there should be a way to put them along the way, but some people might feel that making things mandatory, either , A, is hard to implement. So one of the biggest difficulties is how you do not make yourself irrelevant by making something mandatory, and then it’s not taken seriously. And other people will think that because it’s mandatory, you will not follow it as truly. So I do believe it should be part, but I don’t know if it’s enough to make it mandatory.

Caroline Béguin: What would you say to people to engage them, take actions, since a lot of people still are skeptical? 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: That is a very difficult one, because I don’t understand how people can be skeptical. However, if you see the news, you will notice a lot of very important and dramatic changes are happening, and that didn’t happen a few years ago. If you see the Valencia flooding, we had the same in the UK. You have perpetual summer fires in places like California or in Australia or even in Spain, and these things… or even in Greece. I mean, everywhere you see, you can see the impact of how the climate is changing. If you think about 10 years ago, you will notice how the seasons are milder and how the peaks are higher, and I think what we need to understand is that it’s urgent because it takes a long time to change it. You can see how we changed from throwing everything away to recycling, and in the beginning, it was not very credible, but now, I don’t know about you, but I feel that whenever I throw a bottle in the wrong bin, I am, like, doing something very wrong. And I have had discussions with friends about how using Vinted instead of going to Zara makes a difference, because it is a big impact, and I think it is really the little steps that we take that makes it look normal. And really, it doesn’t take that long. In three or three years, we will stop throwing away cigarettes on the streets, or once again, the fast fashion, I think, is a good one because at least in France, it’s quite visible. But recycling has been a big thing in a lot of countries for a long time, and I think it’s just when you see the world, it is important to think that you are part of it, and that everything you do has an impact on it.

Caroline Béguin: So in your experience, what motivates people and organizations to engage with sustainable efforts? 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: Oh, that’s an interesting one. I think knowing that we have an impact in the way the world works makes a difference, and I think it’s important to remember that every day. I have a couple of friends who have done the climate college, I think it’s called in English, and they come back surprised about how things are gonna change and the world they’re leaving behind. We have a tendency to think that we’re powerless and that we’re just like a little drop in the ocean, but the reality is that it’s all of the drops that make the ocean. 

Caroline Béguin: I have the intuition that money isn’t far from engaging people, taking actions to make the world more sustainable. So if people make money out of it, they will take action. 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: I don’t know. I do agree, and that is a good opening for me to say that we do link the value of reducing the environmental impact with the performance in the context of our products, because indeed, we need to find a way to sell it. I don’t think that making money out of improving the environment helps because the way this work is, like, very long-term, and I could tell you from an economic perspective, that the way we work today in the financialized world, we destroy value most of the time. Because if you think about how a company works, you are at least one that is listed, you will always be chasing for the quarters’ results. And when you’re always looking for this quarter’s result, you’re not able to see the bigger picture. What can we invest on? How do we build a more sustainable future? How… And once again, sustainable doesn’t mean environmentally friendly. Sustainable means that it can last. If you take the example of agriculture, I’m gonna give you an example from Panama, where I come from. For many, many years, it was the usage to burn the land after the end of a season. The reason why you do that is because, A, it’s way easier to clean the land, because normally at the end of a season, you will take out everything, and then when you remove the earth… Well, I don’t know if you remove the earth, but you know, you will remix the earth, and then when you plant again. So at some point, they figure, and I guess it started by an accident, that when you burn what was left, then you get all of these minerals to come up to the soil. I don’t know if it comes up or it goes down from what it was formed, but anyways, the earth is really rich in the beginning, and it’s way easier to clean it up. And then you’re gonna plant for the new season, and that first season is gonna be great…. The problem with this is that when you do that, all of the richness of the soil is really on top of the soil, and if there is a rain or big rain, you will get out all of the minerals. The second thing is that you can only do that two, three, maybe five times. Please don’t hold me accountable for the number of times, but after a while, you deplete the earth, and after five years, you don’t have anywhere to grow more things. And in Panama, we literally made a desert like this, and now, like 25 years later or 40 years later, we’re starting to bring it back up. But that is the kind of thing that is difficult because it was easy for the first three seasons, and you got way better results, and that’s what you wanna do, because it’s better to have something now than to have something in five years. However, if you do it right, you don’t create a desert, you create something that is sustainable and where you can continue making money all the time. So that’s why I am torn, because the mindset built around money today, is not really a real incentive. However, it is true that in certain countries, like for example, in Sweden and I think they’re doing it now in France, because I’ve seen it in like Leclerc or something like that, when you bring your bottles to recycling, you will get like three cents or five cents, and then you can use it. So maybe it does help, however, I don’t think it is the most sustainable way of motivating people to do this.

Caroline Béguin: Okay. So on a more personal note, what motivates you to work towards sustainability in your role? 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: Well, I’m gonna be a bit cheesy about it, but I remember when I was a child, talking about the hole in the ozone layer, and I remember back then thinking about the impact that we had. I don’t know, I was a very nerdy kid, so being working towards the environment and understanding the impact of how we behave and the things that we do in the greater picture, has always been a part of something that I’ve been intrigued by. I was also, like, I’m part of that generation that started with recycling and had challenges in schools, and then when I grew older, I was more opportunistic because, as I said, I come from Panama, and I wanted something that I could do anywhere. So I wanted to work in the industry, and I thought that the environment is everywhere, and then I got very into energy and all of the transition into renewables. So, I have always been fascinated by sustainability and how to support the environment. 

Caroline Béguin: When I go back to the office after this podcast, what can I do when I’m behind my computer? 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: Well, behind your computer, you can already start by cleaning your email box and making sure that all of the files that you have make sense, and you can see whatever you have that is old or duplicated in your computer. Just try to use your software and your computers and your telephones wisely and not change it all the time, because today we do not have a very good way of recycling, in particular, cell phones and things like that. I would recommend you to go to our internal face-to-face page, where we have some recommendations about it, and maybe join a digital cleanup, where you will learn more about how to do this correctly. And in your particular role, which is around creating content and sharing, do share with all your friends what you’ve learned today.

Caroline Béguin: Now that we have covered language, actions, training, and overcoming skepticism to drive meaningful change, let’s shift our focus to guidance and inspiration for achieving net zero operations in the software industry. And to start, what innovations or emerging technologies do you think will play a crucial role in helping software companies reach their net zero goals?

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: Sadly, it’s not gonna be the technology that is gonna help us. It’s really about taking consciousness of what we’re doing. Once again, some people, when they’re trying to be very cynical, and I had this discussion recently in the office, will tell you there is not such a thing as green IT, because anything you do will have a consequence. However, what is important, once again, is to think about this in all of the phases of the life cycle of a product. So from the production, what are we doing? Why are we doing it? Is it dimensioned to the need throughout all of their life and until the decommissioning of products? Because that’s another thing that we tend to forget: the end of life of our products. So I believe that if we are more mindful, if we make this part of our structure and part of the processes that we put in place, and we are rigorous about it, we are gonna be able to create a change. But once again, every little matters, so don’t be scared that if you’re not able to change the structure of your code or challenge the requirement from your bosses, that you cannot do things. Because as a developer, for example, if you think about the number of calls you’re gonna be making or how you’re sizing, a table, or any little thing that can help you improve the performance of your code, you’re already working towards net zero. 

Caroline Béguin: Are there any inspiring examples of companies or initiatives leading the way in sustainable software practices? 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: So I think today in our ecosystem, one of the most inspiring companies is Crédit Agricole. So they are really pioneering in some of these things. They are what they call Numérique Responsable level two, which I think is the highest you can be as of today. They sponsor what is called the Eco Code Challenge, which is a great initiative to create open source, because open source is one of the things that we support in digital sustainability. If you are able to mutualize, everything that you mutualize reduces the number of things that are out there in the world. So I think they are particularly inspiring in moving in this direction. 

Caroline Béguin: What advice would you give to companies just starting their journey toward sustainable software operations? 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: Start. Please- That’s a good one. Please, please- Okay … start. Do not be phased by the challenge. I know, I know it’s difficult, but it is worth it. As I said, we can always find an economic angle. The economic angle being that it will improve your performance, because by being environmentally friendly, you’re able to reduce a lot of the consumption. More on the consumption part, because it is true that at some point you will have to invest to get there, but in the long run, it is a sustainable way of working, and it will bring value to your employees because, as I said, the new generation especially, are very mindful about what sense they bring and how the way they work create something that is better than what it was before. Of course, there’s still a lot of people who care about money. Let’s not pretend that is not the case. But I think that in a world where our biggest assets are people and our intellectual property, being able to bring the right people to the table includes being able to give them a way to create value and to have an impact in the larger world. So it will create value because you’ll bring the right people to the table, and it will create value because it would help your persona, like, the perception and your credibility in the world will also be impacted by doing this. My recommendation, once again, is to start. Start wherever you can. Get educated. So there are companies, and there are associations that will help you do this. As I said, the Eco Code Challenge, for example, is an open challenge to everyone. Ask your suppliers, because some of them also have information. So do ask around because you’re not alone, and you’re not the only one. Involve your people, so if it’s a company who is doing it, probably top management is already involved, but it’s not just something that stayed as an idea. It really goes through all of the levels. So do bring everybody in into this and communicate about it, because the more we communicate, the more we create awareness and the more we create a positive cycle of production.

Caroline Béguin: Is there a final thought or message for listeners about the importance of achieving net zero operations or at least sustainable change? 

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: I think it is important to understand that sustainability is not just about the environment, and to be sustainable, we need to involve everyone and everything that we have. Being sustainable is also being inclusive, because when you take women empowerment, it is fifty percent of the workforce that you’re sometimes not taking into consideration as a resource, and they have many great ideas. We have many great ideas. But it’s also people with handicaps. That is about sixteen percent of the population, and as I said, sustainability is also about being economically viable. So maybe sometimes, instead of thinking about this day, this week, this month, this year, it’s important to see it as a bigger picture. So I think this is very important because we have a tendency to reduce sustainability to just environmental impact. And some people will tell you, like: “Yeah, but we’ll find a way, you know. We always find a way.” And it’s like: Yes, but it could be so much better if we just start reducing the harm we are doing in a way, and it will change the course, and it will change the impact we have in the greater world. So I think that is very important on one side, and the other one, that you have heard me say many, many, many times, is every little count. So do not feel powerless. Do not feel that because you’re only one person in your house, in your school, in your company, doing something, that it doesn’t count, because it’s all of the little gestures, and it’s getting to that tipping point, if we use a known expression, that will allow us to move forward. But we have done it before. Women got rights, and recycling is a real thing. And, you know, we have made bigger and harder changes before, so I don’t see why we cannot tackle this one as well. 

Caroline Béguin: Thank you for being with us, Bettina, enjoying your time.

Bettina Vaccaro Carbone: You’re welcome. Thank you for inviting me.